Rather revealing interview with Jamie

The sexiest, and possibly, the most manipulative housemate
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Flossie
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Rather revealing interview with Jamie

Post by Flossie » Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:23 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBvkvY73FYc&feature=plcp

She really does like to flirt, and her arrangement with her boyfriend is quite remarkable and suggests she isn't really committed to him, and that Prince Lorenzo's probing of her arrangement with her bf was justified, at the time I thought his probing was a little unjustified.

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Post by Anna » Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:58 pm

A good, searching interview where he kept to the point, and very revealing. It's interesting what we don't see - that the Situation is seeing someone for instance. I wonder if this is deliberately left out or whether Big Brother really do miss some of the things said with so many housemates. I wonder how the Situation's girlfriend would have felt seeing Danica and Mike. I wonder if she's been watching (if you can watch it from the States). The thing is though, it was obvious that Mike was serious about Danica. If he's inviting her to the MTV awards and offering to buy her a dress, that doesn't suggest that he's very committed to the girl he's seeing. Danica was always ambiguous about her relationship however (from what we saw anyway) so I can well see that Mike might have thought she was in a similar situation to his own where, if she met someone more right for her, the relationship with her existing guy wouldn't last.

As it is, I also find her attitude amazing. She seems to skate over the surface of feelings. Her attachments to men don't seem all that deep. I don't know if this is something that's the result of doing something like Babestation, if that shaped her attitude to men.

I thought Jamie was brilliant to keep pressing the point and laying down the boundaries - which she just doesn't seem to care about at all. For example when she went to tweak his nipples, showing that it was a harmless thing that she might do to any man, he stated that he was a married man. She seems oblivious to any knock-on emotional effects on anyone else that might be involved with her, or with the man she's flirting with. If it's harmless in her mind, it seems she can just discount the impact on anyone else.

I would query whether anyone genuinely has a 'flirty' personality. Where someone's inappropriately sexual with someone they don't know (e.g. Jamie East), or in situations where the other person genuinely wants a relationship and she has no intention of having one (Mike) I have to query why they're using sexuality this way, what the function of it is for them. After all, any attractive woman could do this. All women know that by and large men are suckers for this kind of thing. Yet most women aren't indiscriminately flirtatious, and disapprove of such behaviour. All women of course would be flirtatious with a man they're genuinely interested in, there's no problem with that.

It's obviously a problem for her partners because she mentions that past boyfriends (plural) have mentioned that she's too flirtatious with other men. I don't know if her behaviour has been shaped by Babe Station (for example someone posted on DS that he knew a girl who was a stripper, and she thought nothing of walking around the house naked in company - she'd become desensitized to normal social values). Or maybe it's a power thing - she likes being able to control men in this way and choose how much of herself she gives them. I suspect the latter. To want to exert power over men in this way indicates to me either some lack of esteem so that she does this to demonstrate to herself her worth, or some underlying hostility to men, such that she wants to control them without really giving anything of herself (which is what happens in her job), or some odd family dynamics ih childhood where attractiveness was equated with worth.

Whatever, all her relationships with men seem characterised by emotional distance. I imagine she does actually have close relationships with her family (her sister for example) so I wonder why she's avoiding intimacy this way in her adult relationships. The fact, also, that she combines presenting as a sexual woman with a childlike quality (the teddy bear) indicates her behaviour's designed to activate men's triggers.

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Post by Flossie » Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:52 pm

That is a very thoughtful post :hug:

I too am troubled with the very casual nature with which she treats extreme flirting. I am still not sure whether she flirted with Mike and Lorenzo because she liked them as friends, as possible partners, or whether she flirted out of a habit she exhibits in any friendly male presence.

She is selective to some degree as she didn't try to flirt with Harvey or Ash, but then according to the psychologist girls only flirt with people of higher status, for some advantage, or with potential partners, and as they obviously fail to meet these criteria then perhaps the behaviour is to be expected.

I also have considered whether arbitrary flirting is a character flaw and I haven't come to a conclusion. As you say, all women could do it with all males, yet they don't, probably because there is something immoral about doing it to gain advantage, influence or status rather than trying to achieve these things through merit. There is also an honesty question: if you flirt you are expressing a sexual interest and if that expression is disingenuous and only designed to gain some advantage then that has to be bad, but if the flirting doesn't go too far and reflects a wish for a close friendship and intended to be fun theeeeeen......

I will have to consider these issues further :)
Last edited by Flossie on Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Anna » Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:26 pm

I have thought about this overnight!

I suspect she didn't flirt with Ashley and Harvey because she doesn't find them attractive, or capable of a fun or witty exchange. (I wouldn't want to flirt with them!). They're just not her type. As you say, flirting is an expression of sexual interest and to express sexual interest, and for it to be fun (which she states is her objective), you have to find it personally satisfying. There has to be some kind of thrill for her. I'm not sure whether the thrill for her comes from engaging in flirting, or engaging and then denying the bloke. She'd also have to flirt with a pretty safe bloke, in that when she gets to the denial stage, she has to trust that they're not going to be aggressive or really unpleasant with her. I wouldn't think you could guarantee that with someone like Harvey or Ashley - look how moody Ashley was when denied by Rhian. That would leech the fun out of the flirting.

So it's interesting to me that there is, actually, some attraction I think at the base of her flirting in person, but it's not one that she seems to want to carry through to a committed relationship. However, I do think she'd consider a relationship with Prince, if he was willing, and I feel absolutely sure that she will go out for that dinner with him after the show. I do think lots of money and apparent sophistication are attractive to her. That's why she said he was more of her type than Mike.

She doesn't have a personal interest in her clients I assume, when she flirts by webcam, but that brings other rewards, and for very little investment of herself. Those mean are also ultimately safe one assumes, as she never meets them and doesn't engage in sex talk. Even so, she could still acquire herself a cyber stalker, or a stalker in reality if she's not careful. Not everyone's going to respect the boundaries she lays down, and as much as she thinks she's capable of enforcing them, I'd imagine it's pretty easy to find out where she lives.

One of the accusations levelled at her is that of gold digger. I always rejected that because she isn't obviously so. But looking back over my post, I do think she's motivated more by money than genuine feeling in her relationshps with men, but does it in a very charming and understated way.

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Post by Flossie » Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:31 pm

Sooooooooooooo...... if the flirting she does is with people she genuinely finds attractive, which may have included Jamie East, then at least it would be honest, although obviously potentially leading to lots of trouble and no fun at all, then the issue is one of whether it is appropriate.

Her moderate flirting with Jamie, who is married and unavailable, can either perceived as a bit of innocent fun where both parties know it is a game, but still based on a liking for him, or is she simply trying to appeal to his basic sexual desires to influence him to give her favourable treatment in interviews. The question one must ask is, if Jamie were just someone she met casually in a social situation, would she flirt with him?

Similar questions one must ask, does she only flirt with people who provide some advantage to her? Is she a flirter only with people of high status, as psychologists suggest is typical of flirters? Is she prepared to flirt with people she does not find attractive that could provide some advantage? Or does that depend on whether she find a quick exit strategy from any disingenuous flirting ? Would she flirt disingenuously if she could do the flirting, gain some advantage and then exit with advantage gained? And if so, to what extent would she be prepared to flirt to gain some significant advantage?

I might have to ring up again and present her with these deep flirting questions :D

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Post by Anna » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:12 pm

When flirting in person, I think she does it for personal excitement and to have the man like her. Also to see if she can control him by her sexuality. That's the fun she's referring to. It's fine if the man is on the same wavelength, but obviously this isn't always the case, as demonstrated by Mike who thought she was a genuine prospect for a relationship - the love of his life. She doesn't appear to care about the feelings of the other party and is somewhat in denial about this I think. If she's convinced her behaviour is harmless, then she believes it's harmless for all parties, irrespective of what they may actually feel. She doesn't appear to have a great deal of empathy in that she can't recognise that some people may be hurt by her behaviour - the man she's been stringing along, or someone else who may be involved with him, or with her. She only appeared to realise it may be a problem flirting with a man who genuinely liked her when she has no intention of having a relationship with him when this was drawn to her attention at her eviction interview. I find this astonishing for a 24 year old, as it means she can't read facial expression and body language in the other person but believes the version in her own head. Alternatively she can read the signs accurately, but it doesn't really touch her, and she just finds the other person falling for her exciting.

With Jamie, I think it was to prove her point that her nipple twiddling was harmless and to overturn his critical opinion of her. Whether she'd flirt with him if she met him at a party, I don't know. Possibly. It depends on what the advantage is. The advantage may be different in different situations, and flirting her standard behaviour to acquire the perceived advantage.

I'm not sure that she'd flirt in person with someone she found repulsive, unless the advantage far outweighed the disadvantage of finding the person repulsive. And as you say, a quick exit strategy would be necessary. If flirting for fun, as she says she does, I imagine it would have to be with someone she finds congenial. If in a situation where she perceives some advantage other than fun might be gained however, then I suspect she still might employ flirting behaviour since she's so skilled at it - but who knows. Generally she tries to employ charm across the board. So much so, that when someone appears to be critical of her, like Jamie, I think she's disconcerted and has to demonstrate that she's harmless really, rather than taking on board what they're saying. When a man doesn't respond in the standard way, as he didn't, I think she'll redouble her efforts to charm him. I think the advantage in that particular situaiton was her self image to the watching audience.

Sorry, this is a bit of a ramble as am rushing to go off and watch the next part of BB eviction.

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Post by Flossie » Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:34 am

Perhaps it really is, as she says, all about having a bit of fun and she simply doesn't consider the consequences of her actions and instead lives for the "personal excitement" gained, and only in the BB house has the confined existence forced her to live with consequences she has been able to avoid in real life.

I think she is very perceptive about people's emotional state, but, as you suggest, perhaps she has no empathy.

I will post more on this at a later date.

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